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Marvin Williams

Game #74 Recap: Al Horford REALLY Likes Playing the Pacers

by Tim Donahue on March 28, 2010 at 7:58 pm

Atlanta Hawks 94 – Indiana Pacers 84

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Well, you knew it couldn’t go on forever. Heck, you’re probably still not sure that the Pacers really and truly had a five-game winning streak. Regardless, it all ground to a halt in the second half as the Pacer offense that had been running like well-oiled machine seized up.

Atlanta is a tough matchup for our boys in Blue. Their frontcourt is quick and athletic, capable of protecting the rim and controlling the glass. Backcourt mates Joe Johnson, Mike Bibby, and Jamal Crawford all can make you pay if you lose them on the perimeter.

The most glaring advantage Atlanta has is in the pivot, where Al Horford has just destroyed Roy Hibbert all season long. In the first two matchups, Horford has outscored Roy 49-12, outrebounded him 35-13, and recorded 7 blocks vs. only 2 for Roy. Still, those were both played before the first of the year, and Hibbert has made some great strides since then.

Unfortunately, not great enough. A good chunk of the story can be seen on their comparative shot charts:

alvroy

The Pacers tried to work Roy early, but he missed his first four shots as Horford used his strength to force Roy into jump hooks from just a foot or two outside his comfort zone. Meanwhile, Horford continually found himself wide open for 12 to 15-foot jumpers, and he capitalized. Hibbert either got lost in rotations or (understandably) gave the Hawks’ center space due to a lack of foot speed. At the end of the day, Horford posted 18 points and 12 boards, essentially in three quarters of play. Conversely, Roy managed only 6 points and 2 rebounds in 23 ineffectual minutes.

As for the rest of the Pacers, they posted an impressive 31-point 1st 1uarter, buoyed by 6-of-9 shooting from beyond the arc. Brandon Rush drained all four three-point tries in his 12 first quarter minutes, and the Pacers entered the 2nd up 31-26. From there, it was a tough road-a-hoe.

Over the next 36 minutes, the Pacers managed only 53 points while hitting only 2 of their 17 threes. Brandon Rush, who was so hot in the first, didn’t play at all in the second, then went 1-for-5 from the floor the rest of the game and was generally nonexistent. At least twice in the second half, he was completely exploited defensively by Jamal Crawford. Rush committed a dumb foul on Joe Johnson late in the first. It’s unclear as to whether his second quarter absence was some sort of punishment by O’Brien, or if it was because Brandon had two fouls. Unfortunately, there was no Pacer TV coverage, and Mike Wells didn’t make the trip to Atlanta, so we’ll have to wait to find out what happened there.

Danny played a good, bordering on great, floor game today, but couldn’t buy a bucket. He scored 18 points on 7-for-19 shooting. He did play some good defense, and his attacking the basket was creating the few second quarter opportunities the Pacers got. Unfortunately, any day that finds both Danny and Roy struggling to score is pretty much going to doom the Pacers limited offense.

Watson, like Rush, played a fantastic first quarter, then showed us his down side. Josh McRoberts was unable to repeat his recent aerobatics, as he was at an athletic disadvantage to Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and Al Horford. Solo got the call after McBob’s first rotation, and performed admirably, posting 7 points and 7 boards. AJ Price and Dahntay Jones, God Love ‘em, played like hot garbage. The only Pacer who was able to maintain his play of late was Troy Murphy, with 21 points and 14 rebounds.

Still, despite being overwhelmed by the Hawks, the Pacers largely kept their heads in the game. This wasn’t a game where they just rolled over. No question they were soundly beaten in the second half, but they kept chasing it. The Pacers have had several losses this year where the final score was closer than the game really was. This game was really closer than the fourth quarter and the final score showed.

None of it was good enough, and the Pacers dropped their 47th game in 74 tries. It’s long been a foregone conclusion, but if Toronto holds onto the double-digit lead they hold in Miami late in the third, then the Pacers will officially be mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. One more loss, and the Pacers will be guaranteed of having their worst record in 21 seasons.

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Game #1 Recap: Hawks 120 – Pacers 109
Actual Observations and Related, Possibly Stupid Conjectures

by Jared Wade on October 29, 2009 at 5:02 am

25 turnovers. Not really much more to say about why the final result resulted as it did.

There’s really no excuse for an NBA coughing up the ball that many times. Still, it was the opener. For a squad that really needs to get off to a good start to avert a woe-is-me attitude that’s constantly lingering after three years without a playoff game and more games missed due to injuries than I care to count, begining the season this sloppily is very bad. But it is only one game. And the only thing less important than October basketball is preseason basketball.

So they get a pass. There are 81 more of these things, so there is no need to over-analyze a game where the team shot well enough to beat the reigning fourth seed in the Eastern Conference but valued the ball poorly enough to lose to the Fever.

Instead of trying to pretend we can learn much of anything from tonight’s performance, then, my plan was to just stick to straight observations for this recap. Of course, I’m completely incapable of not over-analyzing minutiae and trying to inject nuance into the mundane, so please humor me. But just so we can all easily recognize that the things I’m reading into certain plays and “trends” are coming entirely too early to have any real significance, I’ll break these thoughts down into two parts each:

Actual, legitimate, objective observations from the game
Related, possibly stupid conjectures that have, I’d say, a roughly 50/50 shot of being complete lies and/or total wastes of your time

Away we go.

AppleTurnover

Ummmm … Turnovers.

1. Keep It High, Hibbert — You’re Very Tall

Actual Observation - About one minute into the game, Roy Hibbert muscled aggressively to grab an offensive board. He then kept his arms fully extended with the ball way above his head. He then easily laid it in the basket for two points.

Related, Possibly Stupid Conjecture – This should happen threes times per game.

2. Granger Gets Buckets

Actual Observation – About two minutes into the game, Granger allayed all fears about his heel early being worrisome with a great dribble drive to the rim for a lay in.

Related, Possibly Stupid Conjecture – After the whole league had a full summer to acknowledge, watch film on and gameplan around his range, Danny is going to get like easy buckets like this several times each night when he catches a rotating defender closing out him too hard and then walks right by them all the way to the rim. And scoring will get even easier for him as this virtuous circle comes around again and people start to worry about his penetration and just buries jumper after jumper in people’s mugs. Danny has a chance to top 28 ppg this year. There are that many possession out there and this offense makes it difficult to stop him from getting points even if the defense’s plan it to try to take that away.

3. Was Troy Shaving Points?

Actual Observation - Multiple times throughout the night, Troy Murphy threw the ball away in such a baffling manner that it made me think he might be shaving points. About two minutes into the game, he got in trouble in the post and picked up his dribble and threw the ball directly to Marvin Williams. Later, Murphy pretty much gave Josh Smith a dribble hand-off in the half court. Later still, he hit a defender in the chest with Stocktonesque accuracy on an outlet pass after a defensive rebound.

Related, Possibly Stupid Conjecture – This behavior seems completely anomalous, and I obviously know he was not actually shaving points in any way whatsoever, so let’s just call it “one of those nights.” Regardless, I will from now on start referring to these as “I Know Troy Is From New Jersey But He Doesn’t Have any Mafia Bookie Connections, Does He?” turnovers.

In legitimate concern news, his horrible decision-making made me again think about David Berri pointing out Troy’s wild statistitical variance from year-to-year. And that really wasn’t something I wanted to think about ever again. So … Let’s all just pretend Murphy is a leadpipe lock to be just as productive as he was last year and never speak of tonight’s turnovers again. Ok?

4. Brandon Should Focus on Defense

Actual Observation – One one possession in the first quarter, Brandon Rush completely flustered Joe Johnson with his defense, knocking the ball away from Mr. Johnson. Joe quickly regathered the ball, but seemed very frustrated and soon launched a fallaway 20-footer with Rush pretty much inside his jersey. Joe didn’t even draw iron.

Related, Possibly Stupid Conjecture – I know everyone wants Brandon to be a complementary scorer to Granger. And, yes, anyone who saw the fourth quarter last night now knows that the offense certainly could use that. But if Rush is going to cement himself as a starter-level player in this league, this is where he earns his money. This is what he needs to be doing. He did it well throughout the game last night and looking at the larger sample size of last season, it’s safe to say that he is a guy who gets his hands on lots of balls. (I know how that sounds, but there’s no other way to write it. Seriously. Ok, maybe it could have been written a little better.) What Brandon should try to do is emulate the blueprint plans that Trevor Ariza laid out. (1) Be a plus defender, (2) float on offense, and (3) get your buckets in open space within the natural flow of the offense. Whether those points come from knockdown threes after a swing pass, catching and converting on passes while cutting through the paint, or quick drives from the perimeter when there is a clear lane to attack is not really important. What is important, however, is that he makes playing high-quality defense his primary mission and doesn’t burn a ton of calories trying to be cute with the ball on the perimeter while trying to score. In this offense, opportunities to score will come.

5. Small, Quick Bigs Will Be a Problem

Actual Observation – In the first quarter, Horford caught the ball at the high post with Hibbert guarding him. He dribbled hard right and went right by Hibbert with ease. He finished just as easily. He was too quick for Hibbert and Horford knew it. They both did. In a similar situation later in the first half, Horford, who was holding the ball in the high post and being guarded by Hibbert again, passed cross court to Josh Smith, who was hanging out near the baseline. Hibbert rotated over to proper helpside location on the pass. But when Smith quickly whipped the ball back to Horford, Al was able to stick a relatively unguarded six-footer.

Related, Possibly Stupid Conjecture – Sure, you will rarely see an interior give-and-go done this quickly or with this much precision. And, sure, most centers would get beat by this play. But most would get a better contest on the shot. Here, Horford got off the attempt as comfortably as he would in shootaround. Hibbert got beat worse than most big men would because of his poor lateral quickness. And Horford was able to exploit this all night. Smaller big men like Horford will continue to give the Pacers front court fits. We saw it very often last year, most memorably that night in November when Amaré came through Conseco like a tornado. We will see it consistently this year, too. Small, athletic centers will be able to score in bunches, then rinse and repeat.

6. Frenetic Play Is Good and Bad

Actual Observation – Right after Solomon Jones entered the game, he found himself playing helpside D when the ball-handler was in the corner and his man was near the opposite elbow. He stood there under the basket, wildly looking back and forth between his two responsibilities and seemed to be overwhelmed by all the excitement going on around him.

Related, Possibly Stupid Conjecture – I’ll chalk this up to Solo still being inexperienced and having nerves due to the fact that he is trying to carve out a role on a new team that he might actually be able to get burn for. But Solomon Jones looked lost and frenetic out there — and it wasn’t just on this one play. Again, let’s cut him a lot of slack because he unfairly tasked with checking Josh Smith when he entered the game, but his head was on a complete swivel. And not in a good way. He looked like it was one of those instances where the game was seeing a game that was moving at 130 mph. With more minutes, I’m sure the game will slow down for him, but the catch-22 of this situation is — as always — that it’s hard for a coach to give a guy enough minutes for the game to start slowing down for him as long as the guy plays like a confused bobblehead out there.

On a larger scale, this “game is too fast” thing is a problem with this entire roster — and it was last year. The team is full of frenetic players. Almost no one out there can just catch the ball, breathe easy and do something constructive. Everything feels rushed and urgent. And, again, not urgent in a good way. Few Pacer players are able to obey the proverbial “Be Quick, But Don’t Hurry” mantra. Granger can mostly, but even he gets a little over-eager at times.

The one guy who seems most able to provide a sense of calm to a possession is Mike Dunleavy Jr. Or, at least he could two seasons ago when he was healthy. He could hold the ball and move with it for effect and to allow the other guys to run the offense and find proper positioning. TJ struggles with that. He is always water-bugging around out there. He’s never still. Never calming. Obviously, one of the reasons that the Pacers offense can be so potent for stretches is that other teams can’t keep up with that frenetic pace. But, again, there is someone of a catch-22 there since the teams has a roster full of players who often can’t keep up either. Unless these guys learn to keep up, it’s hard to see a lot more consistency or any ability to properly harness the offense late in games when necessary — which means we’re probably in store for just as many blown leads, overcome deficits and wild swings as last year. Exhibit A, is the team’s scoring by quarter last night: 32, 33, 29, 15.

7. Bully Mentality

Actual Observation – In a momentary lack of discipline, Earl Watson bit on a jump-fake by Joe Smith, leaped into him and put a jump-shooter on the line.

Related, Possibly Stupid Conjecture – Whatever. Happens. What’s interesting is that he flew in to the big fella, knocking him down hard and looked down like “What? Get up” as he did it. Then, later, in the fourth quarter, Dahntay Jones “tangled feet” with Joe Johnson, sending the silent assassin to the floor. Dahntay seemed to have a similar attitude after that play.

Neither one of these plays were mean or nasty. Neither was cheap or unprofessional. But they both had an edgy feel to them that made the guys seem a little bit like bullies. This roster could use some bullies.

8. Dahntay Jones: Not For Offense

Actual Observation – Dahntay Jones did some work in the second quarter. To kick things off, he made a nice move to the right to get into the paint for a finger roll at the cup. Then, on the other end of the floor, he aggressively attacked the glass, leaping laterally to snatch one of those “a couple of guys on my team probably could have gotten it that rebound but it’s mine — MINE” rebounds. After he grabbed the board, he dribbled hard up the floor and, near the top of the key, stutter-step faked to shake a defender at the top of the key, freezing him just enough to go by him and leave the defender with no choice but to foul and send him to the line, where he knocks down two freebies. Fast forward another two possessions, and Dahntay drove by Marvin Williams from the wing (after a Pacer who was posting up clears out to give Jones the lane) and not only got to the rim for a lay-in, but also got to the line to complete the three-point play.

Related, Possibly Stupid Conjecture – This offensive flurry was impressive from a guy constantly characterized as having no offensive game. It made me think, maybe he can score? Maybe his production was just retarded in Denver because they so many other guys capable of filling it up? Maybe he can not only bring tough-nosed D to Indiana but also a be a legitimate third option who can create his own shot?

Then I remembered that I watched Denver play like 30 times last season.

Sure, he can do these things on offesne a little. Like, in very limited bursts. Because as was foreshadowed about one minute after his highly effective, early second quarter scoring spree, he also tries to do too much if he’s given the green light. He’s not a great penetrator. He has quickness and some ball-handling ability so can catch guys leaning the wrong way. Guys who close out on him lazily are prone to being caught flat-footed. But Denver fans will be the first to let you know that he should not be facing people up and trying to make a move. He’s a good finisher, a capable slasher and an occasional penetrator. But he’s not a creator. He is not the guy you want to be holding the ball and trying to create a shot when the defense is set. To be productive, he needs to be in open space. Offensively, he thrives in chaos. Havoc is his comfort zone. He regresses within structure. Order is his poison.

If this is the case and if my earlier suggestion is correct that Brandon Rush is more suited to be a good defender in this league than a scorer, then where do the Pacers get their points. The offense shoutd create opportunities, but it is still an uphill battle until Dunleavy gets back. I was hoping that Luther Head can bring some firepower. He looked semi-capable last night. And, hey, maybe Watson can keep shooting like that. We can also assume that TJ Ford won’t put up a Baron Davis-like 1-for-9 shooting every night.

No matter where it comes from, however, and no matter how impressive Dahntay looks here and there, they way the fourth quarter went last night should tell have at least taught us one thing: If the Pacers need to rely on Dahntay Jones to create offense, things could get ugly.

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Game #1 Preview: Sekou Smith Talks Hawks

by Jared Wade on October 28, 2009 at 9:14 am

The plan we’ve conjured up in the 8.9 Lab is to provide yall with a preview of every game this season. Generally, we’ll put them up the day of. On occasion, they may go up earlier. And at other times, life will get in the way and they will not appear at all. Thems the breaks, but we’ll do our very best to bring it for all 82.

We’ll probably mix up the format from game to game to keep things interesting, sometimes interviewing people more familiar with the opponent and other times just writing a straight preview ourselves. Maybe we’ll even dig up some wildcard methods here and there to keep you on your toes. For the opener, however, we obviously don’t have a ton of interesting things to say other than “Welcome back, oh sweet, sweet NBA basketball goodness.”

Thus, I reached out to a man who always has a ton of interesting things to say: Sekou Smith

Many of you are already very familiar with Sekou from his work covering the Pacers, among other things, at the Indianapolis Star from 2002 to December 2004. To the dismay of many a Hoosier, he took his reporter hat and engaging prose with him to Atlanta thereafter and has since been holding down the Hawks beat for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, blogging regularly on the paper’s Hawks Blog and relaying all the NBA news fit to tweet through his @sekousmith01 feed.

Honestly, who could be better to provide some perspective on tonight’s season opener for both the Pacers and the Hawks from the ATL? And fortunately, he was gracious enough to share some of his vast Hawks knowledge with you 8p9s readers.

Here’s a Q&A we did yesterday, with me asking the Qs and Sekou bringing the As.

Between Joe Johnson, Mike Bibby and Jamal Crawford, the Hawks have a ton of offensive firepower in the back court — and three guys who all took a ton of threes last year (each had more than 5 three-point attempts per game last season). Do you see them all continuing to put up a lot of shots or do you see either Bibby or Joe making a concerted effort to make sure guys like Horford and Josh Smith get more shots near the hoop?

I don’t know that Bibby or Joe will sacrifice shots for the other guys, but I think their minutes (should be) curbed to the point that they’ll be forced to give up some shots in the process. If anything, I think Crawford’s assist game will stun some people, mostly because he’s such a willing passer, and he’ll be on the floor with guys that can finish (Smith, Horford, Joe and Marvin Williams).

There are two things I think most NBA players are loathe to surrender (consciously) and that’s shots and minutes. So don’t expect any humanitarian moves from anyone for the sake of the greater good.

Speaking of Josh Smith and threes, he said this summer that he needs to stay away from the allure of the perimeter and instead focus on getting to the rim off the dribble and scoring in the paint. Will he abide by that pledge or will he fall back into settling for too many jumpers?

He’s going to take some jumpers. There’s no doubt about that. But in seven preseason games he didn’t take a single 3-pointer. That’s a stunning stretch for a guy that treats threes like those old Lay’s potato chip ads (”Bet you just can’t eat one”). Well, some of Josh’s teammates have wondered aloud if he’ll be able to keep from taking just one. Time will tell. It’s obvious that his game is far more effective when he’s doing other things. Plus, there are so many other guys capable that he needs to steer clear of the three-point line anyway.

People forget that Marvin Williams is only 23 years old. And last year, he started to look like he was really about to begin making good on some of his enormous potential. How has he looked in camp and will we see his game progress even further this year?

I’ve been getting roasted on my own blog for floating the idea that Marvin was having a breakout season last year before being sacked by that back injury late in the season. He’s looked good in camp and Marvin’s always been better than he gets credit for. He’s always going to get venom around here because he’s not Chris Paul or Deron Williams. I thought that theme would have vanished a bit by now, but it remains strong.

He’s still a youngster, as are Josh Smith and Al Horford. So they’ve all still got room to improve. One of them has to move up to the next level this year if the Hawks want to challenge for anything more than the fourth spot and another 12-15 game playoff run.

No one ever talks about Zaza. But he’s got a cool name and a solid game to match. Discuss.

No one ever talks about Zaza? Where? He’s a fan favorite down here. Maybe not to Austin Croshere proportions, but folks down here love him. Some love to hate him because of his antics on the offensive end and his complaining to the officials. But he earns his money, which can’t be said for a lot of 7-footers in the NBA. (You know who you are).

Zaza is a renaissance man of sorts. He’s a restaurateur, a fashion icon (mostly in his own mind, ha) and one of the all-around best cats you’ll ever meet. His game isn’t sexy and he’s not going to tote the load for you as a starter, but he’s a valuable player here. There’s no shame in that.

Few Pacer fans — or any NBA fans, honestly — know much about Solomon Jones. Were you ever impressed by anything other than his athleticism and do you think he will emerge as a decent rotation guy for the Pacers this year?

Solo was always intriguing here. Remember, he was the Hawks’ second-round pick the year they whiffed with Shelden Williams as the fifth pick in the draft. It took me all of two weeks of rookie camp to realize that Solo had more physical potential than Shelden. He was just so raw. He worked at it, though, which is a credit to the kid. He worked on his offensive game and did what he could to improve his physical deficiencies. That’s what I want to see out of a developmental player in his first couple of years.

The thing I’ve always liked best about Solo, though, is that he’ll dish out a hard foul. He slapped the DNA off of Andre Iguodala a couple years ago and got tangled up with Dwyane Wade in the playoffs last year without hesitation. That impresses me, when a dude like that isn’t afraid to knock a superstar on his tail. I was sad to see Solo leave. At the same time, I realized he was going to a situation (and particularly an offense) that suited his talents a little better.

Jeff Teague is a guy I thought would have been a great fit for the Pacers back court. How’s he looking so far and what do you expect from his as a pro?

Teague has been fantastic, sans his 0-for-everything shooting performance from the floor in the preseason finale Friday in Orlando. I lived in Pike Township when I was in Indy, so I knew he came from good prep basketball stock. I watched very little of him at Wake Forest, so I had to do some research on him this summer with people I know back in Indy and around the league. Everyone raved about his game and his personality, and they were right. He seems like a great kid.

The key to his season will be consistent minutes. If he starts in the 12-18 range and moves into the 20-25 range as the season goes on, I can see him being a major factor for this team. The only missing piece to his game right now is a consistent outside stroke. That’ll come with work before and after practice, which he’s been putting in alongside Mike Bibby, Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford on a daily basis. That’s good company for a young guy.

You left the Indianapolis Star very soon after the brawl. How has it been to watch all the turmoil of the past few years and how do you view the overall state of the franchise now? More specifically, how do you think the team will do this season?

I did leave right after the brawl. The Christmas day rematch game between the Pacers and Pistons was my last day. I’ve been floored by all the fallout since then. Mark Montieth and I have had many long conversations about it since then. I’m not sure I’ve witnessed a more complete gutting of a once-proud franchise in such a short period of time. And I certainly have no idea if you can point to just one culprit. (I know Ron Artest is the easy target.)

Still to this day, I’ve thought that the turning point was the summer they had to decide what to do with Brad Miller and Jermaine O’Neal. Plenty of people have disagreed with me on that, including Mark (who remains a great friend to this day). I just felt like free agency forced them to dismantle a team on the cusp of something big. Once the core of that team was scattered it was pretty much a matter of time. More than anything, it reminded me what a hell of a job Donnie Walsh did building that thing the way he did. To last that long in this era of professional sports is an accomplishment in itself. Donnie held it together for so long, so to see some people taking shots at him once he left was more than a bit disingenuous to me. The brawl and the aftermath just sped up the process.

As for this season, I won’t count them out before actually seeing them with my own eyes. But I don’t have them in the pool of playoff hopefuls I’m expecting big things from.

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